Kweli is thrilled to relaunch its Sing the Truth! series today as a tribute to Toni Morrison.
During “Art and Social Justice” at the Ambassador Theater, Toni Morrison reminded the audience that artists are “the ones that sing the truth.” The Big Box, Morrison’s first picture book collaboration with her son Slade, sings the truth about “[t]he plight (and resistance) of children living in a wholly commercialized environment that equates “entertainment” with happiness, products with status, “things” with love, and that is terrified of the free (meaning un-commodified, unpurchaseable) imagination of the young.”
Today in Sing the Truth!, we celebrate New York Times best-selling author and literary warrior Denene Millner. Denene is a highly respected and sought after award-winning journalist whose captivating books, columns and essays have secured her foothold in the entertainment, parenting, book publishing and social media industries.
Her passion for children and the books that celebrate them led to Denene’s partnership with Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers, under which she helms her own children’s book imprint, Denene Millner Books. The imprint is dedicated to publishing titles by African-American authors and illustrators, for readers of all ages. Denene Millner Books previously published Crown: An Ode to the Fresh Cut, a Newbery Honor Book, a Caldecott Honor Book, and a Coretta Scott King Author Honor Book, and her forthcoming list includes If Dominican Were a Color by Afro-Latina blogger and advocate Sili Recio, on issues surrounding colorism; Me and Mama by author-illustrator Cozbi Cabrera, focusing on “the everyday life of a girl and the love of a mom”; and Ya Ya and the Sea by journalist and essayist Karen Good-Marable, which Millner described as “reminiscent of Last Stop on Market Street.” Denene Millner is happily changing the landscape of publishing.
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Laura Pegram: Which Erykah Badu lyrics would sum up your approach to business affairs over the past five to ten years?
Denene Millner: Oh, GREAT question. First, you have to know that writing Badu’s memoir is my DREAM job. Like seriously. I’ve loved her music forever, but her spirit—the way she embraces life, her convictions, her art and her voice are all inspiring. She is the epitome of free. I strive for that level of freedom in my own life.
That said, the Erykah Badu lyrics that sum up my approach to business affairs would be those of her song, “I Want You,” from her Worldwide Underground album. The song is presumably about a woman who wants to be with a man and, try as she might to shake the feeling, her heart won’t have it. She reads books, drinks holy water, goes to a sauna and does yoga, but her want for him won’t go away. That is totally me in business: there will be ideas—books, stories, gigs, publishing opportunities, TV jobs, radio shows, etc.—that I dream up for myself and no matter how much others try to convince me that maybe they are not for me, I can’t let go. If I want to do something, I’m going to say it out loud and go for it.
It’s funny, but when I was a kid, you couldn’t tell me that 50 wasn’t old. Like most kids, I really thought that life was over when one entered their fifth decade, and all that was left was retirement, growing old and sitting in a rocking chair until the chariot swung low. But my God, now that I’m here, I know better. I can’t sit still. I constantly want more and more when it comes to doing what I love. I don’t work; I do what pleases me—what interests me. What makes me feel like I’m in love. And the moment I make clear to myself what I want, I go for it. That’s how I ended up as a host on a television show (Georgia Public Broadcasting’s “A Seat at the Table”), how I got myself a children’s book imprint (Denene Millner Books/Simon & Schuster), how I got a podcast (Speakeasy with Denene), and how I ended up as an executive producer on a made-for-TV movie (“Angrily Ever After”)—all things that happened in the last few years. I am in a constant state of desire when it comes to my career; there’s so much more to do, so many more ideas I have inside me. I’m enjoying this journey, this freedom to explore what truly moves me, and claiming it. It’s served me well.
LP: Kweli means truth in Swahili. What truths would you share with a sister who may be interested in running her own eponymous imprint?
DM: First and foremost, it is not easy. One has to build trust with authors, illustrators and agents to convince them that you are, indeed, a player in this game—that you can deliver if they decide to bring their projects to you or otherwise work with you. One also has to be ready to really work.
There is so much to do—finding the projects and the money to purchase them, competing for the best work, procuring illustrators, editing manuscripts, seeing each project through the sales, marketing and publicity meetings, promoting the book, being a liaison between the author and every facet of the company during the publishing process. The amount of work that goes into the creation of a book is almost overwhelming, so you have to really love what you do and make time for what you truly want. You also have to be ready to pull your hair out because oh-my-word there are so many trains running at the same time, sometimes it’s just hard to keep them from running into one another. You have to be prepared for those setbacks and pulling out your hair and rocking incessantly while you wait for others to do their part so that you can do your part. Basically, you’re giving birth to book babies and catching them like an old school midwife, too. It’s no joke. You have to constantly remind yourself of the mission. Mine is to create beautiful books that celebrate the humanity of black children. That makes all the trials and tribulations and tough work worth it.
LP: In an early interview, Toni Morrison defined what makes a good editor. “Knowing what not to touch; asking all the questions you probably would have asked yourself had there been the time. Good editors are really the third eye. Cool. Dispassionate.” As an award-winning journalist, bestselling author, and publisher of Denene Millner Books, at Simon & Schuster Children’s Publishing, how would you define a “good editor?”
DM: I think a good editor understands, first and foremost, that the book is not hers; the baby belongs to the author and it is the editor’s job to help usher that baby to life, not give it life. My job, then, is to recognize ways to improve the storytelling, the writer’s style, the plot and the like, rather than take over the writing and create those things. I think I may be a bit more sensitive to this because I do have a background as a writer and I understand what it feels like to have an editor come along and just rewrite your work rather than, as a midwife of sorts, help you understand how to make it better. To that end, I do believe editing includes a bit of teaching for the uninitiated, a lot of patience and a keen eye for everyone who writes. And I absolutely agree with Ms. Morrison: there’s a lot of questioning—finding the holes in a piece, asking why they’re there and suggesting ways that they can be filled.
LP: In a Publishers Weekly interview, you mentioned that at Denene Millner Books you are “now looking for folks who aren’t necessarily the go-tos.” Derrick Barnes introduced you to Gordon C. James when you were at Agate. How did you connect with Cozbi Cabrera, author/illustrator of Me and Mama?
DM: Oh goodness, I have Victoria Sanders, my agent, to thank for that. She introduced me to Cozbi’s Me and Mama back when Denene Millner Books was at Agate Publishing, but I couldn’t afford it while I was there. Then, it was a beautiful board book—simple, spare, gorgeously written and illustrated. One of the first calls I made when I took the imprint to Simon & Schuster was to Victoria to see if Me and Mama was still available, and to my surprise and great delight, it was. Except Cozbi had taken it even further than the first iteration, adding to the story and the illustrations to create a full-length picture book. The copy made my heart flutter. Truly, the book is every bit as lovely as Cozbi. I’m so proud that it is in the line-up of my debut year.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Kweli’s Founder, Laura Pegram, introduced Cozbi Cabrera to her agent, Victoria Sanders.
LP: Which two lines from Me and Mama deeply resonated with you as a mother of two daughters?
DM: I love, “’Sometimes, things break,’ Mama says.” It’s a line that comes after the child is comparing her cup to her mother’s, the latter of which she “clinks” until it breaks, even after noting that her mom’s cup is breakable. The mother’s response is beautiful to me because it shows a reaction that is sensible, gentle and forgiving—the way I’ve known black mothers to be, but a way that isn’t necessarily acknowledged in mass media when it comes to black mothers. What we get are endless memes on Instagram noting how no-nonsense, loud and mean black mothers are, or stories celebrating moms who beat their children in the street. What we just don't see is how loving black mothers can be—how loving we are. That line shows a mother who understands that her baby is a child who is curious and deserves the space, direction and love a child needs to learn. That is the way I tried to parent my daughters; I don’t believe in physical punishment and I raised my daughters with intention and grace and love and understanding—all of which helped them grow into incredible young women. I know I’m not alone in this mode of childrearing, and I’m so glad we have this book to celebrate that.
I also love the lines, “Mama laughs. She throws her head back and shines her teeth,” for the same reasons. They show a black mother’s joy—another thing we don't get to see often enough. I just love how Cozbi made that joy shine through. As a mother, I enjoyed laughing and playing with my daughters—still do. My 20-year-old still gets tickled and she tickles me back. My 17-year-old still hugs and kisses me and still folds into my arms when she needs a little tender loving care. And we are open and honest with one another. That was made possible by love, but also joy. An understanding that being happy is not only possible but necessary and easily attainable—for free. Kudos to Cozbi for creating a book that honors that.
LP: During a recent episode of A Seat at the Table, you said that “Ava [Duvernay] is my hero.” Who served as your hero as a child?
DM: Of course, my parents are my heroes. My mother was deeply religious and a bit of a disciplinarian who loved the Lord and her family, and she was the one who instilled a moral center in me and my brother. It was she who took us to Sunday School and church every week, and had us in the youth choir and on the usher board and standing up in front of the entire congregation giving speeches at a young age. She was so proud of me. I lived to make good grades and choices to honor her and, selfishly, to earn her praise. She was also absolutely beautiful—tall and lithe. Like a supermodel. She could dress! Couldn’t tell Sister Millner nothing when she tipped down the center aisle at St. John’s Baptist Church, okay? Above all else, she loved me. And so does my daddy, James, who, to this day, is my hero.
Nothing made me happier than to ride shotgun in his Eldorado on Friday afternoons, when he would buzz all around town paying his bills. This was back when you went to the bank to cash your check and wrote out your bills and paid them in-person at the store where you had credit. We would pay the bills and then he’d take me to the mall for an ice cream cone; we’d sit on the bench in the middle of the mall and people watch and tell stories to one another about the people we saw. Or we’d go and get ham heroes and watch The Mets play on the big TV downstairs. To this day, I hold his hand when we’re walking somewhere together. And he still parents me—counsels me on everything, from how to handle tough work situations, parent my babies, handle my money, be safe in my home and so much more. The job doesn’t end just because your child is grown. The two of them taught me how to be and I absolutely would not be the woman I am today without their love and unyielding support and love.
LP: How do you balance the art making with publishing, taping A Seat at the Table and family time?
DM: This is, perhaps, my biggest challenge. Because all of the different gigs take up an enormous amount of time and it’s hard to be creative and make art when you’ve spent your energy on other modes of art making. I don’t force it.
One of my dearest friends, Akilah Richards, once told me that balance is for flamingoes and I couldn’t agree with her more. This is to say that while I am capable of doing many things, I can’t always do them all at once exceptionally. Something’s gotta give. So some days that focus may have to be on publishing and I have to put my personal novel I’m working on to the side. Or taping may take precedence over the podcast, or the podcast may take priority over freelance writing. My children have watched me work on deadlines since the womb, and so they understand that sometimes, I may not be fully present—dinner might come from UberEats instead of one of my pots and pans, the house may not be as neat as I prefer it to be. And passion projects may take a backseat, temporarily, to the projects that actually have deadlines. Something’s gotta give if I’m to do my work with excellence. Sometimes that means art-making gets tucked on a shelf for a while, or my usually orderly house isn’t as tight as I want it. But we all live to see another day and the work doesn’t stop. Most importantly, I don’t complain.
LP: Thank you for Singing The Truth! with us, Denene. We celebrate you and look forward to the launch of Denene Millner Books this year.
Denene Millner was chosen by Black Voices website as one of 40 Influential Black Female Writers in 2011 for good reason: she has had huge reach with nearly two dozen novels, nonfiction tomes, celebrity memoirs and children’s books to her credit. Denene is a prolific author whose work is in high demand. She is best known for co-authoring Steve Harvey’s two #1 New York Times bestsellers: Act Like a Lady, Think Like A Man, named the best-selling book of 2009 by Nielson, and Straight Talk No Chaser, both which became hit feature films—“Think Like a Man,” and “Think Like a Man, Too.” The original Lifetime movie “With This Ring,” based on Denene’s co-authored book, The Vow, debuted in January 2015. She is the co-author of Charlie Wilson’s eponymous memoir (2015) and Jessye Norman’s memoir, Stand Up Straight and Sing (2014). Memoirs she penned with Cookie Johnson (Believing in Magic) and Taraji P. Henson (Around the Way Girl) made the rare fete of appearing on the New York Times bestseller’s list simultaneously when they were released in fall 2016. Last year, Denene penned Fresh Princess, a children’s picture book written with Will Smith inspired by The Fresh Prince.
Laura Pegram is a multidisciplinary artist who is influencing a new generation of authors: 2019 National Book Award Finalist, Kali Fajardo-Anstine, the 2019 winner of the PEN/Robert J. Dau Short Story Prize for Emerging Writers, John Paul Infante, The Best American Essays Notable, Jodi M. Savage AND MORE. Author, educator, and a jazz vocalist whose cabaret performance teamed her with jazz pianist, Donald Smith, Ms. Pegram is also a painter. Her richly hued vibrant murals are part of several private collections. She has worked as a Development Associate at Scholastic Productions, Inc., as an Instructor at the Frederick Douglass Creative Arts Center and as an Acting Director / Instructor at the John Oliver Killens Young Writers Program. She is the founding editor and publisher of Kweli Journal.
